On this edition of the City Journal Books Podcast, Ben Boychuk and Joel Mathis discuss presidential power with Stephen F. Knott, author most recently of Rush to Judgment: George W. Bush, the War on Terror, and His Critics (University Press of Kansas). Knott, a professor of national security affairs at the United States Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island, contends that historians have done a disservice to their profession by judging President Bush's record too harshly, too soon. His previous books include Alexander Hamilton and the Persistence of Myth, Secret and Sanctioned: Covert Operations and the American Presidency, and At Reagan’s Side: Insiders’ Recollections from Sacramento to the White House.
Stephen F. Knott
Among the questions we discuss:
• How did George W. Bush's national security decisions differ from former presidents?
• Do historians give some presidents a pass on abuse of power more than others?
• Is the role of Congress in wartime to write checks and shut up?
• Should Congress have formally declared war on the Taliban in 2001?
• Have the courts carried out a "quiet constitutional revolution" in the way presidents may handle national security?
• Did the Bush Administration's wiretapping program go too far?
• Did Bush invite the judgment of history?
• And much more!

Please visit and "like" Ben and Joel and City Journal on Facebook to comment or to share this interview. There you will also receive regular updates about new stories from City Journal and City Journal California, along with links to Ben and Joel's weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service. Thanks for listening.

We're pleased to announce that the Ben and Joel Podcast is becoming the City Journal Books Podcast! Although our name and home base may be changing, the content of the program will remain the same. We'll continue to offer 21st-century conversations for listeners with 19th-century attention spans with authors of books we think are interesting, enlightening, and particularly relevant to the public discourse.
Charles R. Kesler
In this episode, City Journal associate editor Ben Boychuk and Joel Mathis, a national affairs columnist for Philadelphia Magazine's The Philly Post, talk to Charles R. Kesler about his new book, I Am the Change: Barack Obama and the Crisis of Liberalism. Kesler is the Dengler-Dykema Distinguished Professor of Government at Claremont-McKenna College, a senior fellow at the Claremont Institute, and editor of the Claremont Review of Books.

Among the questions we discuss:
• What ideas motivate Barack Obama?
• Who's the audience for this book? How should a liberal engage this book?
• Do conservatives know more about liberals' political history than liberals do?
• How did Woodrow Wilson's "New Freedom" reshape American politics?
• How did Franklin Roosevelt inexorably tie liberalism to the Democratic Party?
• How did Lyndon Johnson outdo FDR and Wilson?
• Does Obama represent a "fourth wave" of liberalism?
• What do American progressives owe to the German philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel?
• Did history end for American conservatives in 1787?
• Do conservatives unknowingly accept liberal premises?
• And much, much more!

Please visit and "like" Ben and Joel and City Journal on Facebook to comment on this interview, as well as to receive regular updates about the podcast and links to our weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service. You'll be glad you did!

Programming note: Let's call this one the last episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" and the inaugural episode of the "City Journal Books Podcast." Upcoming guests include: Stephen Knott, Greg Lukianoff, and Richard H. Immermann.

Ben and Joel are joined by Brink Lindsey. He is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and senior scholar at the Kaufman Foundation—he's also known for his time at the Cato Institute, where among his many roles he served as the editor of the monthly Cato Unbound magazine. He's written several books, including "The Age of Abundance: How Prosperity Transformed America's Politics and Culture." And he is the author, most recently, of the short e-book discussed in today's podcast: "Human Capitalism: How Economic Growth Has Made Us Smarter--And More Unequal."

Questions contemplated in this podcast:

• How is economic growth making us smarter and more unequal?
• Is growing income inequality the "dark lining of a silver cloud?" Is economic growth good despite the growth of inequality?
• How is Lindsey's book different from Charles Murray's recent "Coming Apart," aside from a cheerier outlook? What's holding back the middle class?
• Do differences in "cognitive culture" explain differences in achievement? Do genes matter? And since can't kids can't "pick the right parents," how intractable is the problem?
• Does helicopter parenting actually work? How? Has Joel already ruined his 4-year-old son?
• Can inequality be solved by applying libertarian solutions? Will school competition help? And why urge more early child development programs when they don't seem to work?
• Has America captured all the "low-hanging fruit" of easy innovation and human capital development. Is this economy as good as it gets?
• How are zoning laws and occupational licensing in big cities inhibiting the normal flow of the economy?
• Bonus: "Human Capitalism" was released as an e-book ahead of hardcover publication. How has the e-book publication affected preparations for the hardcover book?

Next podcast: Charles Kesler discusses: "I Am The Change: Barack Obama and the Crisis of Liberalism."

Ben and Joel are joined by one of the most distinguished investigative reporting duos in American journalism. Donald Barlett and James Steele have worked together for more than four decades, first at The Philadelphia Inquirer, where they won two Pulitzer Prizes, then at Time magazine, and now at Vanity Fair as contributing editors--racking up armloads of prestigious awards everyplace they’ve been. They also have written eight books.

Their most recent book is “The Betrayal of the American Dream”--it’s a follow-up to “America: What Went Wrong?” a 1991 series that originated in the Inquirer and then became a book.

Questions considered in this podcast:

• Why is the American middle class disappearing? And 20 years after "America: What Went Wrong?" has the situation actually gotten worse?
• Isn't American manufacturing still really successful? And isn't growing inequality the result of growing productivity?
• Is free trade actually good for America? Or does the system guarantee American workers never be successful? And what happened to our trade surplus with Mexico?
• Doesn't the free trade produce cheap goods for American consumers? How can the U.S. compete with the advantages available to state-supported companies in China? Is a little bit of protectionism called for?
• Is it better to make iPads here or buy them cheaply from abroad? How about shoes? And even bridges? Are we willing to risk trade wars to guarantee fairness?
• Is tax policy really responsible for the growth of income inequality in the United States? What's wrong with lowering rates but eliminating loopholes? Should we actually have more brackets in the tax code?
• Is it actually possible to create a successful political movement in favor of protectionism and higher taxes for the rich and big corporations?
• What's the secret to Barlett and Steele's four-decade partnership.

For more podcasts and weekly political commentary, join the conversation at Ben and Joel's Facebook page.

Douglas Stuart joins the podcast to discuss his new book, "Creating the National Security State: A History of the Law That Transformed America," a look at the 1947 National Security Act. Stuart holds the J. William Stuart and Helen D. Stuart Chair in International Studies at Dickinson College; he is also an adjunct professor at the U.S. Army War College.

Questions pondered in this podcast:

• What did the United States look like, militarily and national security-wise, before World War II?
• What's the difference between "national interest" and "national security?"
• Who was Pendleton Herring? How did he influence U.S. security policy?
• How did the rise of Nazism and Fascism influence American ideas about security? How did the emphasis on national security facilitate the rise of an "administrative state" here? And what did the advent of the atomic bomb mean in all of this?
• How was the 1947 National Security Act shaped by service rivalries?
• What did Harry Truman think about the massive bureaucracy that resulted from the act?
• Does the military dominate the U.S. foreign outlook too much? What about domestic politics?
• Is there a way to reform the bureaucracy without making a bigger mess?

Programming note: This is a brief interruption of our hiatus. The podcast will be back in full force later this fall.

Ben and Joel are joined by Jonathan Haidt, the Thomas Cooley Professor of Ethical Leadership at NYU-Stern School of Business. He’s the author of several books, including “The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom” and more recently, “The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided By Politics And Religion.”

Questions considered in this podcast:

• Why do good people fight over politics and religion?

• What are the parts of morality that are obviously part of human nature? And how do liberals and conservatives differ, morally?

• Are liberals missing a limb, morally speaking? Are they at a moral disadvantage in political debates? And are liberals loyal to the nation?

• Do academics and intellectuals try to turn ideologies into pathologies? Do liberals have too much sway in the academy?

• What does Haidt mean when he says "morality binds, and blinds?"

• How much does genetics feed into our ideological predispositions? If we're hardwired, what's the point of bipartisan dialogue?

• Who is better at understanding the other side? Liberals or conservatives?

Programming note: We often have 45 minutes to an hour to discuss these books with their authors—in this case, the interview lasted just a half-hour. Aside from forcing us to drop a number of questions from consideration, the time limit may have made us sound rushed and truncated. We're more aware of how lucky we are to get the time we normally do with authors! In any case, please visit and "like" the Ben and Joel page on Facebook to comment on this interview, as well as to receive regular updates about the podcast and links to our weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service. You'll be glad you did!

Jonah Goldberg, American Enterprise Institute fellow and editor-at-large at National Review Online, joins Ben Boychuk to discuss his latest book, The Tyranny of Clichés: How Liberals Cheat in the War of Ideas.

Joel Mathis received a last-minute offer he couldn’t refuse and couldn't join us for this episode—which was a shame, because Ben and Jonah were looking forward to the sparring contest. But Joel's presence is made known around 13 and a half minutes into the podcast, when Ben reads a couple of questions he had written shortly before we recorded.

Among the questions we discuss:
• What's so great about ideology?
• Why aren't liberals more willing to embrace their ideological history?
• Is the problem with liberals today that they're "bookless"?
• Do conservative arguments based supposedly on "first principles" obscure the practical effects of conservative policies?
• Who doesn't support progress?
• If he had to do it all over again, would Goldberg have written a completely different book?
• How has Goldberg's style evolved since the old days of the original G-File on NRO?
• And much, much more!

Music heard in this podcast:
• "The Ritual/Ancient Battle/2nd Kroykah," Gerald Fried (from "Star Trek: Original Television Soundtrack," Vol. 2)
• "Days Are Forgotten," Kasabian
• "Logical Song," Supertramp
• "The Trees," Rush
• "My Way," Sid Vicious
• "Jessica," The Allman Brothers
• "Epilogue (original version)—End Title," James Horner (from "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan—Expanded Edition")

Please visit and "like" the Ben and Joel page on Facebook to comment on this interview, as well as to receive regular updates about the podcast and links to our weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service. You'll be glad you did!

Programming note: This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 5, No. 12 for 2012, and was recorded in June. Unfortunately, editing took quite a bit longer than usual because of a technical glitch. Joel Mathis was on assignment when we recorded this one.

Ben and Joel are joined by author Robert Draper. He’s a former writer for Texas Monthly magazine; nowadays he’s a correspondent for GQ and a contributor to The New York Times Magazine. He was the author, in 2007, of “Dead Certain: The Presidency of George W. Bush.” And he’s out with a new book, “Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside The U.S. House of Representatives.”

Questions considered in this podcast:

• How did the Tea Party change the House of Representatives? How have Tea Party candidates been changed by the House? How do they deal with the tension between their principles and the demands of governing?
• How has the Republican Party in Congress evolved over the years? What lessons did they learn from Ronald Reagan? And how does John Boehner still have his job as Speaker of the House?
• How did 2011's fight over the debt ceiling become such a "sugar-coated Satan sandwich"?
• What lessons can Democrats learn from the last few years? Did President Obama ever have a chance to govern in bipartisan manner? Or did he make too much a fetish of bipartisanship? And why can't Democrats figure out what they stand for?
• Have Twitter and Facebook made the job of Congress impossible?

Music heard in this podcast:

• "No No No," Yeah Yeah Yeahs
• "No Way," Sonic Youth
• "Stop The World," The Clash
• "Satisfaction (I Can't Get No)," Otis Redding
• "You Won't Be Satisfied (Until You Break My Heart)," Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong
• "Won't U Please B Nice," Nellie McKay

Please visit and "like" the Ben and Joel page on Facebook to comment on this interview, as well as to receive regular updates about the podcast and links to our weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service. You'll be glad you did!

Ben Boychuk is joined by Lenore Skenazy, "the World's Worst Mom" and author of the 2009 book, Free-Range Kids. Ever since Skenazy caused a scandal by allowing her then-9-year-old son to ride the subway home alone, she's been waging a sometimes lonely war against what she aptly calls "worst-first thinking." Recently, Skenazy has turned her biting wit against the emerging trend of "Alcatraz Parenting", which was the impetus for what turned into a fairly wide-ranging interview.

Among the questions we discuss:
• Why isn't her Discovery International reality TV series on in the United States?
• How much has really changed since Free Range Kids was published?
• How did the Etan Patz case change public opinion and the laws?
• Just how bad is the kidnapping problem today?
• Should parents take their kids to parks and leave them there?
• How does worst-first thinking threaten self-government?
• Which do you prefer: "Alcatraz parenting"? "Prisoner parenting"? Or "Panopticon parenting"?*
• What are some really dumb products that parents can buy to provide an illusion of safety for their children?
• "Tooth Prints"? Seriously?
• Is the fear of lawsuits overblown?
• What are some of the most important things children should learn before they are 12?
• And much more!

* This is really embarrassing, but when we recorded the interview, I misidentified the originator of the "panopticon" concept. It was, in fact, Jeremy Bentham. For some reason -- age? a small stroke? lack of caffeine? -- I identified the man behind the idea as John Stuart Mill. (Well, I had good reason: Mill was, after all, a student of Bentham's.) It's especially galling because I asserted with supreme confidence that most people listening to this podcast would know what the panopticon is or was. If you don't, just follow the links. Anyway, I cut that part of the exchange from the interview -- about two minutes in all -- although Lenore's musings on the panopticon remain intact.

Music heard in this podcast:
• "Greatest Love of All," Big Daddy
• "The Kids Are Alright," The Queers
• "I'm Your Boogie Man," KC and the Sunshine Band
• "Overlove," Dio
• "Fearless," Pink Floyd
• "Take a Chance," The Bomboras

Please visit and "like" the Ben and Joel page on Facebook to comment on this interview, as well as to receive regular updates about the podcast and links to our weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service. You'll be glad you did!

Programming note: This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 5, No. 11 for 2012. Joel Mathis was on vacation when we recorded this one. I should have posted this sooner, but events conspired against it.

Ben and Joel are are joined by Edward Luce, Washington columnist and commentator for the Financial Times, where he writes about American politics, and the economy. In addition to his reporting career, Luce spent 2000 as the chief speechwriter for Lawrence H. Summers, the US Treasury secretary. He has just written a book: "Time to Start Thinking: America in the Age of Descent."

Questions considered in this podcast:

• Is anything going right in America these days?
• Why is the middle class stagnating? And why does it matter for our economy and our politics?
• Will Americans ever again get to have stable jobs with a stable set of skills? Or will careers be a constant process of retraining and "upscaling" of skills?
• Why should government push harder for solutions to America's problem when even the elites aren't smart enough to know what the right solutions are?
• How can America compete with state-centric economies like China while holding onto its traditional notions of liberty? Doesn't American have a bias against government picking winners and losers?
• Is innovation necessarily linked to manufacturing? If so, how does American innovation survive the country's dwindling manufacturing capacity? Can a digital economy spur the necessary innovation required by the economy?
• Is it more important to reform education or immigration? Are there changes we can make without spending lots of money? Or should we be pouring money into infrastructure—and how do we decide what projects to fund?
• Are Americans getting the (sclerotic) government we deserve—are we responsible for our own decline? Or are we just subject to the natural forces of history? Or can "American Exceptionalism" lead us out of decline?

Music heard in this podcast:

• "Until The End of the World," U2.
• "Way Down In The Hole," Tom Waits.
• "The Distance," Cake.
• "Yawny at the Apocalypse," Andrew Bird.
• "End Theme," Zero 7.

Please visit and "like" the Ben and Joel page on Facebook to comment, as well as for updates about the podcast and links to our weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service.

Jim Manzi, the founder and chairman of Applied Predictive Technologies and a senior fellow with the Manhattan Institute, joins Ben Boychuk and Joel Mathis to discuss his new book, Uncontrolled: The Surprising Payoff of Trial-and-Error for Business, Politics, and Society (Basic/City Journal).

Among the questions we discuss:
• What do we know?
• Do we know enough to make sweeping social policies?
• What's wrong with experimenting with reforms? What kind of experiments should we be conducting?
• Can scientific research overcome political forces?
• Do top-down reforms ever work?
• Have the education reforms of the past 20 years made a difference?
• Can liberty and technocracy co-exist?
• What's Manzi's problem with Mark Levin?
• And much more!

Music heard in this podcast:
• "Natural Science," Rush
• "She Blinded Me With Science," Thomas Dolby
• "Political Science," Randy Newman
• "Science is Real," They Might Be Giants
• "What's the Matter Here?," 10,000 Maniacs
• "I Don't Know," The Lounge Brigade

Please visit and "like" the Ben and Joel page on Facebook to comment, as well as for updates about the podcast and links to our weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service.

Programming note: This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 5, No. 10 for 2012. Once again, Skype behaved strangely. So if you're wondering why Joel sounds like he's speaking in an empty auditorium, that's why.

With the rise of e-reading, how has the nature of authorship changed? Andrea Buchanan, the author of the new multimedia young adult novel, "Gift"—and the co-author of the bestselling "The Daring Book For Girls"—joins Ben and Joel to talk about the challenges of writing for a digital format.

Questions considered in this podcast:

• Why would a traditional author move into creating "multimedia" books?

• Are elements like music, games, and videos an integral part of today's reading experience? Or are they just bells and whistles?

• How is writing a book different in a digital format? Is it more like a movie project, with a series of specialists helping create a single work? Or is the author still the author?

• Will writers continue to eke out a living this way?

• Is there a stigma against digital publication among authors and publishers?

• What happens when the post-apocalyptic America with no electricity arrives? Are e-books too ephemeral? Is Jonathan Franzen right that they endanger democracy?

• What's the best way to bring kids along as readers? Print or digital devices?

• Is the death of print greatly exaggerated?

Music heard in this podcast: Selections from the multimedia novel "Gift."

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Ben and Joel are joined are joined by Sanford Levinson. He's a professor of law and political science at the University of Texas-Austin. He's a renowned authority on constitution law, whose books include "Wrestling with Diversity," Constitutional Faith, and "Our Undemocratic Constitution." His newest book is something of a sequel to that last title: "Framed! America's 51 Constitutions And The Crisis Of Governance" is from Oxford University Press.

Questions pondered in this podcast:

• Does the Constitution deserve our reverence?
• Are we having the wrong Constitutional debates? Does the Constitution approved in 1787 make sense for the United States today?
• What lessons from state and foreign constitutions might apply to the American version?
• Does the example of California warn against incorporating "direct democracy" into the national constitution?
• What is signified by Congress's perennially low approval ratings?
• Does the existence of the Republican and Democratic parties eliminate the need for so many checks and balances? Or does the structure of government encourage obstructionism?
• Do we need another Constitutional Convention?
• Is there enough trust left in American society for such a convention?

Music heard in this podcast: The Beastie Boys.

Ben and Joel are joined by The New Republic's Timothy Noah. Prior to his current stint as the TRB columnist and blogger at TNR, Noah wrote for Slate—and that's where he developed the series of articles that formed the basis for his latest book, The Great Divergence: America's Growing Inequality Crisis and What We Can Do About It (Bloomsbury).

Timothy NoahAmong the questions we discuss:
• What is "the Great Divergence"?
• Are the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer, or is the gulf between rich and poor becoming wider?
• How much does culture contribute to economic inequality?
• Has the growth in single parenthood exacerbated the trend?
• How much does immigration—illegal or otherwise—affect inequality?
• What about globalization?
• Is there a silver bullet reason for this growing inequality? Can we blame this on Republicans and Ronald Reagan?
• Does America need a revitalized labor movement? Should labor be treated as a civil right?
• Is it possible to improve the lot of the poor without diminishing the standard of living of the rich?
• Why not "soak the rich"?
• And much, much more!

Music heard in this podcast:
• "I'm Payin' Taxes, What am I Buyin'?" Fred Wesley and The J.B.s
• "The Mating Game," Bitter:Sweet
• "Wicked World," Black Sabbath
• "Killing Yourself to Live," Black Sabbath
• "Democracy," Leonard Cohen
• "The Working Man," Creedence Clearwater Revival
• "Taxman," Soulive

Please visit and "like" the Ben and Joel page on Facebook for updates about the podcast and our weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service.

Programming note: This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 5, No. 7 for 2012. We had a couple of glitches in the audio recording -- Skype is funny that way. In the section on immigration, George Borjas's affiliation was garbled beyond intelligibility. He is currently a professor of economics and social policy at Harvard's Kennedy School.

Jonathan Bell is Senior Lecturer and Chair of the History Department at the University of Reading. He joins Ben and Joel to discuss his new book, "California Crucible: The Forging of Modern American Liberalism."

• Why is a European academic interested in American politics?
• How did liberals overcome Republican dominance of California politics after World War II?
• How did grassroots clubs aid the rise of the Democratic Party in California?
• What is Gov. Pat Brown's legacy today?
• Is anybody willing to pay the bill for the welfare state they want?
• How did anti-union efforts by Republicans aid the rise of Democrats in California?
• How much did modern political polarization find its origins in California?
• Where was the environmental movement in all of this?
• Can economic liberalism and cultural liberalism be separated?
• How does this history relate to the mess that is modern California politics and budgeting?
• Does the welfare state need rethinking?

Ben and Joel are joined by Lex Friedman, author of "The Snuggie Sutra" and the forthcoming "The Kid in the Crib," for a talk about TV comedy.

Questions considered in this podcast:

• Is this a golden age for sitcoms?
• What does the Internet have to do with that?
• Which show is better: "Community" or "Louie"?
• "NewsRadio" or "WKRP in Cincinnati"?
• "The Larry Sanders Show" or "Arrested Development"?

Music heard in this podcast: Theme songs from some of your favorite sitcoms ever.

Signing the Declaration of Independence

Ben and Joel discuss "the Divine and Natural Connection Between the Declaration and the Constitution and What We Risk by Losing It" with Hillsdale College President Larry P. Arnn. His latest book, The Founders' Key (Thomas Nelson), makes the case that the United States government today operates outside the controls of the Constitution and contradicts the principles of the Declaration of Independence.

Dr. Arnn was previously president of the Claremont Institute, where he hired Ben not once, but twice. He has not made that same mistake a third time, however.

Among the questions we discuss:
• What is the connection between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution?
• What do we risk by losing that connection?
• Who or what is the God of the American Founding?
• Suppose one doesn't accept "the divine"? Can there be a good, secular understanding of the American Founding without God?
• What did the Founders mean by justice? How does equality fit in?
• Is much of what government does today "necessary" or "proper"?
• What happened to separation of powers?
• Is the Constitution of 1787 mostly gone?
• What happens to free elections when government is bigger than the society that supposedly controls it?
• And much, much more!

(Questions not discussed in this podcast: Whose dog is that I hear in the background? What's his name? What breed of dog is it? Answers, in order: Dr. Arnn's; "Jack"; a Boxer.)

Music heard in this podcast:
• Symphony No. 3, "Eroica," Beethoven
• Enigma Variations, "Nimrod," Edward Elgar
• Carnival of the Animals, "Personnages à longues oreilles," Camille Saint-Saens
• The Sea, "Storm," Frank Bridge
• A Lincoln Portrait, "Fellow Citizens, We Cannot Escape History," Aaron Copland

Programming note: This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 5, No. 4. Please visit and "like" the new Ben and Joel page on Facebook for updates about the podcast and our weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service.

Mister, we could use a man like Calvin Coolidge, again.

Ben and Joel welcome back scholar, author, and Powerline blogger extraordinaire Steve Hayward for a wide-ranging chat about his latest book, The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Presidents from Wilson to Obama (Regnery).

Among the questions we discuss:
• Why start with Woodrow Wilson? Why not include an earlier Progressive Republican?
• What did America's Founders have in mind with the presidency?
• Are Republican presidents graded on a curve?
• Is the rationale for wiretapping and waterboarding really constitutional?
• If the president does it, is it legal?
• Does John Locke justify the Iran-Contra Affair?
• What is the charitable constitutional case for Richard Nixon?
• Does Calvin Coolidge make a comeback this year?
• Is Barack Obama an "affirmative action president?"
• And much, much more!

Music heard in this podcast:
• "Pigs (Three Different Ones)," Pink Floyd
• "Hey Mr. President," The Electric Prunes
• "Mustapha Dance," The Clash
• "Young Americans," David Bowie
• "Assemble Your Crew," The Mag Seven
• "When the Going Gets Dark," Quasi

Programming note: This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 5, No. 3. Coming up next: Hillsdale College President Larry P. Arnn joins Ben and Joel to discuss "The Founders' Key."

Please visit and "like" the new Ben and Joel page on Facebook for updates about the podcast and our weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service.

Hollywood! Hooray?

You would never know it from the total news blackout and absence of hype, but the 84th Annual Academy Awards are this Sunday, February 26. Joining Ben and Joel for this edition of the podcast are returning guests Christian Toto (Big Hollywood) and Matt Prigge (Philadelphia Weekly).

Among the questions we discuss:
• Can you care about movies and not care about the Oscars?
• Who and what got robbed?
• Which of the nine Best Picture nominees will win? Which one deserves to?
• What about the actors?
• What about the actresses?
• What about the animated films? (Related: Why didn't Pixar release a movie last year? No, Cars 2 doesn't count!)
• Which of these nominees will embarrass and befuddle us in 25 years?
• Which of these nominees embarrasses us right now?
• And much, much more! (Billy Crystal is mentioned only in passing.)

Music heard in this podcast:
• "Hooray for Hollywood," Nancy Sinatra
• "A Real Hero (featuring Electric Youth)," College (from the "Drive" Original Motion Picture Soundtrack)
• "Seeding, And Horse Vs. Car," John Williams (from the "War Horse" Original Motion Picture Soundtrack, nominated for Best Original Score)
• "The Artist Ouverture," Ludovic Bource (from "The Artist" Original Motion Picture Soundtrack, nominated for Best Original Score)
• "George Smiley," Alberto Iglesias (from the "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" Original Motion Picture Soundtrack, nominated for Best Original Score)
• "The Thief," Howard Shore (from the "Hugo" Original Motion Picture Soundtrack, nominated for Best Original Score)
• "The Adventure Continues," John Williams (from "The Adventures of Tintin" Original Motion Picture Soundtrack, nominated for Best Original Score)

Programming note: This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 5, No. 2. We're hoping to go from a monthly schedule to more of a bi-weekly routine in the next month. Stay tuned!

Please visit and "like" the new Ben and Joel page on Facebook for updates about the podcast and our weekly syndicated column with ScrippsHoward News Service.

Ben and Joel are joined by Bruce Edward Walker, editor of The Heartland Institute's InfoTech & Telecom News. Top of the agenda? The Stop Online Piracy Act, which would let the government shut down websites accused of copyright infringement.

Topics discussed:
• What does the Stop Online Piracy Act actually do?
• What's the difference between the SOPA and net neutrality issues?
• What affect might the law have on cat funerals?
• Is the tide turning against SOPA?

Music heard in this podcast:
• "Watching the Detectives," Elvis Costello
• "Evil!" Grinderman
• "Rebellion (Lies)," Arcade Fire
• "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida," Mojo Nixon.
• "Exit Music (For A Film)," Vampire Weekend

What a show! Returning to the podcast, possibly for the last time, is Steven F. Hayward, author of the Almanac of Environmental Trends, the two-volume Age of Reagan, and other fine books. Hayward has been stirring up trouble on the right lately, first with his essay in the fall issue of the Breakthrough Journal on "Modernizing Conservatism"; then with his recent article at National Review Online and follow-up posts at Powerline comparing Newt Gingrich to Winston Churchill.

"Modernizing Conservatism" drew pointed responses from Ben Domenech, Joe Bast, and Ricochet blogger Dave Carter, while NR's Ramesh Ponnuru took exception to the Gingrich-Churchill analogy.

We asked Steve to come on the podcast to confess and recant his heresy. Instead, he embraced the charges and doubled-down. Listen and judge for yourself.

(Incidentally, Hayward laid the groundwork for some of this in the second volume of his Age of Reagan. We discussed his assessment of the Reagan Revolution and the present state of the conservative movement on this podcast in 2009.)

Among the questions we discuss:
• Is conservatism failing?
• What, if anything, can replace the Republicans' "starve the beast" strategy?
• Is the welfare state really a "fact of life"?
• What would an ideal tax system look like? How about a progressive consumption tax?
• Can politicians ever stop tinkering with the tax code?
• What can Republican governors teach us?
• Does the United States need a third party?
• Is the gap between left and right unbridgeable?
• And much, much more!

Music heard in this podcast:
• "The Inquisition," Mel Brooks
• "Family Affair," Bobby Hutcherson
• "Heretics," Andrew Bird
• "We Just Disagree," Dave Mason
• "Good King Wencesles," Unknown Artist

Programming note: We've changed the way we identify the episodes. This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 4, No. 8. You might be wondering, whatever happened with Vol. 4, No. 1? Eventually, "lost episodes" become corny clichés.

Wall Street is Our Street!Ben and Joel are joined again by City Journal contributing editor and author Nicole Gelinas, who has written some of the most lucid critiques of the "Occupy Wall Street" movement from the right. We discuss two of her articles, "Hell, No, We Won't Toe" and "Apples and Oranges," and we follow up on the central arguments of her 2009 book, After the Fall: Saving Capitalism from Wall Street—and Washington.

Among the questions we discuss:
• What's the best that can be said for the Occupy Wall Street demonstrators?
• What's the difference between the Tea Party protests of 2009 and the Occupy Wall Street protests of 2011?
• What could Steve Jobs have taught the Wall Street occupiers?
• Utopian speculation notwithstanding, why aren't more free-market conservatives climbing on the "Occupy" bandwagon?
• Must real capitalists support Wall Street as we know it?
• What's the line between "elegant" regulation and overregulation?
• Can we have large corporations and free-market capitalism?
• Is "too big to fail" dead?
• Can conservatives learn anything good from Franklin Roosevelt?
• Risk? What risk?
• And much more!

The music of Muse is heard in this podcast:
• "Uprising"
• "Assassin (Grand Omega Bosses Edit)"
• "Take a Bow"
• "Supermassive Black Hole"
• "Knights of Cydonia"

Programming note: We've changed the way we identify the episodes. This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 4, No. 7. You might be wondering, whatever happened with Vol. 4, No. 1? Ben says he'll post it "real soon now."

After a surgically induced hiatus, Ben and Joel return and welcome their friend Rick Henderson, managing editor of The John Locke Foundation's Carolina Journal.

Topics covered in this podcast:

• What is with Ben's squirrel obsession?
• What are the flaws with President Obama's jobs plans?
• What can a liberal like about the plan?
• Why isn't the Fed doing more to push job creation?
• Is unemployment or inflation a bigger threat to the economy?
• What's the conservative plan for fixing the economy?
• Can the Supercommittee save us?
• Is AttackWatch.com a sign of Nixonian Big Brother paranoia on the part of the Obama Administration?
• Or is it simple political discourse in the 21st century?
• Are fact-checking operations really checking facts?
• Are liberals ready to join the Ralph Nader bandwagon?
• Have you ever voted for a presidential candidate with unalloyed joy?

The music of R.E.M. is heard in this podcast:

• "What's the Frequency Kenneth?"
• "Man on the Moon"
• "The Sidewinder Sleeps Tonight"
• "Stand"
• "Everybody Hurts"
• "Losing My Religion"

The podcast returns after a summer of discontent. Joining Ben for this edition is Ted Nordhaus, chairman and co-founder with Michael Shellenberger of the Breakthrough Institute, "a paradigm-shifting think tank" founded in Oakland in 2003 with the goal of "modernizing liberal thought for the 21st Century."

Nordhaus and Shellenberger are co-authors of "Break through: Why We Can't Leave Saving the Planet to Environmentalists," published 2007 and winner of the 2008 Green Book Award.

And most recently, Nordhaus and Shellenberger have launched the Breakthrough Journal, a new quarterly founded shortly after the death of Daniel Bell. The journal embraces Bell's view that, "A new public philosophy will have to be created in order that something we recognize as a liberal society may survive."

Joel was preparing for Hurricane Irene and was unable to join us for this episode.

(Also... "breakthroughing"? Obviously, it should be "breaking through." That's what a lousy two cups of coffee at 8:00 a.m. on a Saturday gets you!)

Among the questions we discuss:
• What does a 21st century liberalism look like?
• Should liberals rethink the "entitlement state"?
• Why do some environmentalists say one thing about renewable energy and do another?
• Can $500 billion buy a green economy?
• What sort of innovation should the United States pursue?
• What's the matter with cap and trade?
• Do conservatives and liberals have anything to talk about?
• And more!

Music heard in this podcast:
• "Break On Through," DJ Disse
• "Bein' Green," Andrew Bird
• "Electric Uncle Sam," Primus
• "To the Left, To the Right," T Model Ford
• "Riders On The Storm / Pink Solidism," Yonderboi

Programming note: We've changed the way we identify the episodes. This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 4, No. 5. You might be wondering, whatever happened with Vol. 4, No. 1? It's a mystery, not unlike Stonehenge or double rainbows.

Jacob S. HackerBen and Joel return with the second episode of a planned series on inequality in the United States. (Listen to part one here.) Over the next several months, Ben and Joel will discuss the problem of income and social inequality with some of the nation's leading thinkers, economists, political scientists and journalists.

(Read Joel's companion blog series on inequality at Cup o' Joel.)

In this episode, Ben and Joel interview Jacob S. Hacker, the Stanley B. Resor Professor of Political Science at Yale University, and co-author with Paul Pierson of "Winner-Take-All Politics: How Washington Made the Rich Richer--And Turned Its Back on the Middle Class" (Simon & Schuster).

Among the questions we discuss:

• What does inequality look like in the 21st century? How are the rich getting richer?
• Does inequality really matter in the United States?
• How far does raising taxes on the rich get us? What's an appropriate rate?
• Are Democrats to blame for inequality?
• Can America ever get back to the more equal distribution of wealth it saw in the 1950s?
• Is the welfare state too big? Too small?
• And much, much more!

Music heard in this podcast:

• "Winner Take All," Geraldine Hunt
• "Wealth Won't Save Your Soul," Solomon Burke
• "Capitalism," Eastenders
• "Taxman," Soulive
• "Big Money," Rush

Programming note: We've changed the way we identify the episodes. This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 4, No. 4. You might be wondering, whatever happened with Vol. 4, No. 1? "Shut up," Ben explained.

William VoegeliWith this edition of the podcast, Ben and Joel launch the first of an ongoing series on inequality in the United States. Over the next several months, Ben and Joel will discuss the problem of income and social inequality with some of the nation's leading thinkers, economists, political scientists and journalists.

(Read Joel's companion blog series on inequality at Cup o' Joel.)

Kicking off the series with Ben and Joel is William Voegeli, a senior editor at the Claremont Review of Books and author of "Never Enough: America's Limitless Welfare State" (Encounter Books).

Among the questions we discuss:

• Is it true that America's welfare state is really limitless? Do the protests in Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana and elsewhere suggest that there are limits?
• How much government are Americans willing to pay for?
• What is liberalism's guiding principal, if any? Is liberalism an "ad hoc-racy"?
• How does conservatism identify and solve social problems?
• Is true income equality possible? Is it desirable?
• Is there a way to "turn the social policy dials" to correct social ills?
• Does California prove the limits of the "welfare state"? Can Jerry Brown save it?
• And much, much more!

Music heard in this podcast:

• "I'm Payin' Taxes, What Am I Buyin'?," Fred Wesley & The J.B.s
• "I'd Love to Change the World," Ten Years After
• "Bring It Home," The Bamboos
• "The Trees," Rush
• "New World Man," Rush
• "Damn Right, I Am Somebody," The J.B.s

Programming note: We've changed the way we identify the episodes. This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 4, No. 3. You might be wondering, where is Vol. 4, No. 1? We're still editing it. Next ep! Promise!

The podcast returns with a vengeance, as Ben and Joel explore the mysteries of natural law and constitutional interpretation with Hadley P. Arkes, the Edward Ney Professor of Jurisprudence at Amherst College and author most recently of "Constitutional Illusions and Anchoring Truths" (Cambridge University Press). Ben and Joel asked Prof. Arkes to discuss the Supreme Court's decision last week in Snyder v. Phelps, the military funerals case involving the "Rev." Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church congregation. But in order to get to the Phelps case, we needed to establish a few first principles.Hadley P. Arkes

Arkes writes about the Phelps case at First Things on Wednesday. His discussion with us is a spirited elaboration on the subject. (And for earlier commentary by Ben and Joel, see here, here and here.) If you know nothing about natural law, this interview is for you. If you think you understand the current scholarship on natural law, you really should listen. And if you're already a fan of Hadley Arkes' writing, this interview will be a treat.

Among the questions we discuss:

• What are some constitutional illusions and what are the anchoring truths from which judges have become unmoored?
• Should the natural law have any bearing on our understanding of the Constitution?
• Is natural law just a secular gloss on a theistic understanding of the world?
• Would the natural law condone homosexual marriage in 50 years?
• What did the Supreme Court get wrong in the Snyder v. Phelps case?
• How should Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire inform our understanding of the Phelps case? (For a different take, listen to Ben and Joel's interview with University of Chicago law professor Geoffrey Stone.)
• Should the law ban offensive language?
• What do Fred Phelps and Mark Steyn have in common? (The answer may surprise you!)
• And much more!

Music heard in this podcast:

• "Natural Science," Rush
• "Freewill," Rush
• "Also Sprach Zarathustra," Shawn Lee
• "The Rev. Fred Phelps is a Horrible Person," HedCas
• "Witch Hunt," Rush

Programming note: We're changing the way we identify the episodes. This episode of "The Ben and Joel Podcast" is Vol. 4, No. 2. You might be wondering, where is Vol. 4, No. 1? We haven't posted it yet.

Ben and Joel are joined by a stellar panel to discuss the books they would give as gifts this Christmas. Guests in this episode include Rick Henderson, editor of the John Locke Foundation's Carolina Journal; Pia Lopez, editorial writer for the Sacramento Bee (and Ben's weekly sparring partner in the Bee's "Head to Head" column, where they discussed books on Dec. 8); and Sam Karnick, editor of The American Culture and director of research at The Heartland Institute.

Music heard in this podcast:

• "Santa Claus is Coming to Town," Joseph Spence
• "Gabriel's Message," Sting
• "Little Drummer Boy," Los Straitjackets
• "O Little Town of Bethlehem," Shawn Lee's Ping Pong Orchestra
• "Must Be Santa," Bob Dylan
• "A Holly Jolly Christmas," Burl Ives

Books discussed in this podcast:

Daniel Okrent, the author of "Last Call: The Rise and Fall of Prohibition" joins the podcast to talk about the book -- and about his stint as the first "public editor" of the New York Times. He'll speak at the National Constitution Center on Monday night in Philadelphia; see the center's website for details.

Questions considered in this podcast:

• How did Prohibition happen in the first place?
• What was the role of race and gender in moving the movement forward?
• What lingering effects has Prohibition had on popular culture?
• What lingering effects has Prohibition had on our drinking culture?
• What's the relationship between taxes and Prohibition?
• What lessons can we learn from the last century about marijuana prohibition?
• Is the New York Times doing the right thing by publishing the WikiLeaks revelations?
• How has the Public Editor role at the Times evolved since Okrent originated it?

Music heard in this podcast:

• "I Drink Alone," George Thorogood and the Destroyers
• "Whiskey You're The Devil," The Clancy Brothers
• "Drinking Song From Hawaii," Andy Iona's Novelty Four
• "Little Brother," Grizzly Bear
• "The Drinking Song From De Fledermaus," The Blazers